Disease

Disease (716)

At some point late last year there was some discussion about the Disease spell and how it could be fixed. Almost always mentioned in any Disease discussion is the moving of the spell to one of the Curse stances. This idea came about during the time of Romulus, and I believe that his original intention was to do just that. However, that plan is another of those that is gone with our old guru. It may still happen, but we have no way of knowing.

During the last round of discussion about the spell I recall someone mentioning allowing us to choose the type of disease that we loose upon the target. Some would work differently than others, but as is the nature of disease and illness the target would begin to lose the ability to function properly as the debilitating effects of the disease took hold.

Of highest importance is changing the spell so that it is useful and worth the mana expenditure. There have been many suggestions, but as with phase most of those were lost to the ether. However, Dighn compiled a good list of many of those suggestions, which is presented below.

Posted by Dighn, February 14, 2003
(Cleaned up a bit)

Just thought I would mention I had this post completely finished and just before I posted my computer decided to hard freeze. If the post seems a bit lacking in grammar or grace I apologize as I am too angry with myself at the moment to reproduce the original document with any talent.

I believe the spell Disease is in dire need of attention. Many have suggested including the spell as an effect of curse, or even gone so far as to call for its complete removal. I support the idea that time be allotted to perfect Disease and any other of our seldom used spells. My current perception of sorcerers is that they do not wish any time to be spent fixing our existing spells. The call is currently for the show-stopping Animate Dead and Demonic Summoning be the main Sorcerous priority.

I support the recent trend among the GM Teams for revision of the existing material. I much rather have 20 perfectly functional low level spells than one high level ability and a broken spell list. Perhaps this post will manage to sway readers to my opinion.

NOTE: I do not claim any or all of these ideas as my own.

1. Make Disease communicable. Unlike other sorcerer spells, Disease does not appear to be an Illusion. An actual virus is created and a potential host is exposed. If the target fails to ward off the spell the host becomes infected and is vulnerable to the disease's effects. Using this logic there is no reason why this disease could not spread through several routs of infection.

The host would be able to pass their affliction to others that come into contact. A factor which could determine if the target can communicate the disease is if the creature physically touches you when attacking. Abilities such as bite, claw, ensnare, and stomp would all have the potential of infecting others.

Another thought is that the disease could lesson or gain strength as it is passed from one host to another. A simple way of adding this feature could be done in the form of multiple warding checks when creatures become exposed to the virus. I personally support the idea of the disease mutating as it spreads from host to host, naturally becoming more deadly as it evolves.

The total number of infected creatures could be capped at a determined limit. Other considerations could be how bad the target failed the warding, the difference of levels between caster and target, the specific type of the target, etc.

Another idea that could possibly be explored is players contracting a disease and being able to spread their sickness to others. I did not fully develop this thought as any possible addition that has the potential for abuse requires substantial amounts of time consuming safe-guards.

2. Target has the chance of becoming rabid. The chance of this affect occurring would depend on weather the creature has the potential to contract this form of illness. Only creatures that are animal and humanoid in nature could become rabid.

As the creature is fully engulfed by the virus, it becomes feral and highly aggressive. The host will attack anything within striking distance, potentially exposing them to their illness. This aspect of Disease has the potential to backfire upon the sorcerer. If the creature manages to strike the caster he must resist the effects of his own creation.

3. Increase the nebulous debilitating effects of Disease. The infected target could develop a fever and become delirious. As the target begins to succumb to the virus it loses its ability to defend itself or mount an effective attack. Massive infection could cause severe tissue damage throughout the body.

The creature would no longer be able to support its own weight as its muscles deteriorate. Lifeless arms could not grip weapons and shields, forcing them to drop them to the ground. The creature could have serious mental side effects and lose the ability to perform magic for periods of time. Any number of ill effects could be unleashed upon the host as he falls deeper into sickness.

These effects could remain even after the disease has run its course. Dead skin and limbs would still be unable to function properly. The target could possibly slip back into repeated infection.

3. Allow sorcerers to choose the effects their Disease will have. Like curse, have stance factor into which debilitating aspects of the spell will be visited upon the target. Include outside influences that effect the results of the spell. These factors could include large age differences between target and sorcerer, number of sorcerer spells known, and over-training in the sorcerer circle.

4. Create an unfocused form of Disease. The sorcerer could release a deadly virus into the air, affecting everyone not joined to the caster. Varied mana cost would be applied for how many potential targets there are within the room. The aerosolized virus could be constructed in several different ways. One possibility is a cloud version that floats about the room randomly afflicting targets. The cloud could possibly be controlled by the caster in terms of target selection and duration. The most simple method of exposure would be a mass warding check that immediately follows the casting of the spell.

Several factors that could effect the mastery of the spell could be the sorcerer's Spell Aiming and Multi-Opponent Combat skills. If possible I would greatly desire to see room and weather affects act upon unfocused Disease. When indoors the Disease stays in the air longer and requires warding several times before the virus disperses. Areas with heavy wind could possibly lead to the caster loosing control of the spell and having it drift into another room.

I would prefer this mode of attack remain player-unfriendly as is the nature of our arts. Another potential risk that could be added would be self-exposure when a fumble occurs. Great power comes with great responsibility.

5. Give sorcerers the ability to infuse weapons, food and drink with disease. The current form of Disease would serve well as a flare on most weapons. The infection could be automatic through random flares or perhaps through random warding checks based on the original casters magical abilities. The CS could remain constant, or slowly decrease as the disease wears away from the item. Magic Item Use would play into the success, duration, potency, and effects of the diseased weapon.

An interesting penalty to this ability could be if a player died at the hands of another player with a diseased blade, the Sorcerer who fashioned the sickness would be held responsible AS WELL as the attacker. I believe this would add a drawback for any friendly neighborhood sorcerer wishing to infuse every arrow or claidhmore he finds.

I always liked the idea of Dighn being able to leave a bunch of specially prepared tarts throughout Icemule as a personal gift the town's residents. I do not believe the disease should be activated upon touching the food or drink, but rather when the item is consumed. Perception and Trading could effect players efforts in detected tampered foodstuffs.

Merchants could perhaps sell vials of poison or diseased fluids which those skilled in Magic Item Use could apply to their arms. I suspect the addition magical potions will be a part of the upcoming Alchemy skill. Player created vials could be outside of this system, or a possible building block for further use.

6. Adjustments made to the time setting for Disease. Recently done with Nightmare, Disease could also benefit from shortened times in initial infection and successive onset of symptoms. An idea that I have not seen discussed is fluctuating timetables. For example: If the Sorcerer is able to heavily ward the target, the effects of the spell would be nearly instantaneous. Many other factors could effect the time settings for the spell at the coders discretion.

7. Allow stackable casting of Disease. A single sorcerer could create and infect a host with multiple forms of disease. Possibly reduce the mana cost of additional casts performed by the sorcerer. As the disease takes hold, the caster can continually supply energy to the disease instead of creating an entirely new strain.

If one sorcerer can summon a virulent disease, imagine the deadly threat several sorcerers could inlfict upon a single target. Like Pain Infliction, this spell could be used in tandem with others with increased potency. Many viable options could be added to this spell to make it group friendly.

8. Include a spell specific TD pushdown as an added effect of Disease. The target's immune system becomes increasingly weaker as the spell eats away at their body. The generated loss of TD would only effect the Curse and Evil Eye spells as the creature would be more vulnerable to debilitating spells.

9. Add better messaging to Disease. I can think of no better spell to enrich with frightening and gruesome messaging as is our professions recurring trait.

A Kobolds body is wracked with spasms of pain as the disease spreads throughout its body!
Blood begins to flow freely from A Kobold's mouth, nose and eyes!
A Kobold falls to its knees, no longer able to stand due to unending bouts of dry heaves!

Suggestions could be created and submitted by players on the message boards or sent directly to the coder. GM's could sort through the list and select those which they liked best, or have players vote for their favorites. I could imagine no greater tribute than to see my spell messaging flash across the screen as a disease rips through my unfortunate enemy.

It is my hope that this post will generate more ideas for this spell and many others that could use improvement. Perhaps if enough of us are able to come up with great ideas for our profession, the coders will devote their time to making them a reality.

Dighn Dark beam - Kris na Su'ta

Nilven Responding to Pin, February 16, 2003

>One of our biggest problems with the DC changes is how do we attack "norms" Those critters which are for various reasons not considered magical. Many of these creatures possess maneuver attacks which make standing in front of them for any length of time suicidal, yet MD and Disintegrate take a while to kill. Disease for as long as I have played a sorceror has been looked at as a bastard step child. It really isn't all that useful. It takes far too long to affect the critter, and far too long to kill. In some critters it causes them to parry up, making it less than a wonderful group spell (even if it actually manages to get the disease cycle off).<

I think some of that issue might disappear with the upcomming DC tweak, but it is still a valid point. The tweak to DC doesn't negate the fact that Disease could use work. I'll do my best to try to have us fit it in for sometime around mandatory, but no promises. It would not be a sort amount of time spent, though, the contagion issue alone (if approved) would add a good amount logistics time and difficulty to changing the spell.

Nilven

It Would Be Useful If.... by Pin, February 16, 2003

While I think the contagion sounds fun, I would be very surprised to see your Seniors allow that to be added to the spell. It wouldn't hurt to try I guess, but I would be very surprised. Remember this spell can be cast by critters at us too.

Some of the things that would make the spell just plain useable are:

Start damage cycling immediately.

Tie the damage cycle directly into the critter's RT, instead of one disease every two critter cycles (guessing).

Add some effects to the disease cycles. Randomly, the critter falls to its knees, sick and puking. Turns green and misses its attack cycle. Is stunned by violent blotchy patches erupting from beneath its skin. Staggers as its insides threaten to become outsides.

This way, the spell does damage, and randomly can cause added fun effects.

The spell will still take a long time to kill, but might be used in addition with other spells to incapacitate and kill.

Pin

It's in a PROFESSION Circle by Hadiar, February 16, 2003

While I like the idea of a mass disease, and have always thought that it should have been part of the spell anyway... I still don't see it adding much use to the spell. It would still take far too long to kill, which is the primary problem with the current version.

If the damage were increase dramtically, then it might have some use. Furthermore, the cloud idea, if it were implemented, would not be player-friendly, since I don't think the GM's would be willing to make it player-friendly if it were a cloud. And the "mass-cast at all creatures in the room" would also probably not be player-friendly (much like Evil Eye.) If it were player-friendly, the GM's would probably impose some ridiculous MoC skill upon it.

Nevermind the fact that for two more mana than Disease, a single wizard can clear a room full of 50 creatures, even with 100 players standing idly nearby. And of course, there's no MoC check. Anyone else ever wonder why Cone of Lightning, the next logical progessive step from Major Shock, is in the Major Elemental list instead of the wizard list?

Anyhow, back to Disease, while I liked the ideas that were posted, again, the damage would need to be doubled or even tripled. If the GM's are unwilling to do that, they need to get rid of the spell entirely and put something in its place. Say, something on par with the destructive ability of Cone of Lightning. Especially considering the fact that Disease is on the SORCERER list, a PROFESSION spell circle, while Cone of Lightning is on an elemental circle.

You know, for all of our claims that Sorcerers are the most destructive profession in the game, it stands to question why wizards have the two most devestating mass attack spells in the game.

Contagious by Sothog, February 16, 2003

I'm not entirely convinced that Disease needs to be replaced entirely (although moving it into the redundant pseudo-Torment slot might be viable). However, the proposed contagion effect need not be completely player-unfriendly...

Prep Disease.

Cast at critter of your choice. This creature becomes infected if the warding check fails, per normal. However, the creature is also contagious, _to other creatures of its type_. In effect, the sorcerer has tailored the disease to the target species. Multiple kills, obviously, are possible, but requires a little patience. Step into room, cast at critter, leave. Peek in with Eye Spy to see if it's died yet, or what else has caught your little tailored 'bug'. When critters start dying like flies, walk in and collect the loot- or
if the critter is weakened but not dropped, follow up with a coup de grace with one of your other attack spells.

An open cast version could essentially chuck a bunch of different ailments at everything in the area, in the hopes something 'sticks'. This, reasonably enough, could nail player and critter alike. However, the resulting infections would tend to be less effective than the 'directed cast' option noted above; contagion still has a
chance of occurring, but at a considerably lesser rate, and to any critter (or player) that might walk by. (Perhaps there could be a CS penalty to the contagion effect- initial cast at normal CS, but when the system checks for infections, it is done at the caster's CS with some penalty attached.)

So, with the above variations, Disease could be used to get a quick and dirty effect by trying to infect several creatures in the same room at once (but getting a weaker effect, and the risk of nailing bystanders directly or indirectly), or to target a single creature with a tailored infection for better damage, but at the expense of spending time loitiering in the area (preferrably an adjecent room in the case of creatures with maneuver attacks or spells that simulate same) while waiting for (a) the original target to die; (b) secondary infections to take place, in which case moving back to (a) might be neccesary.

The only serious balance-related issue here is that the contagion check rate must not be made too high, or else it will propogate potentially indefinately (this would be particularly bad in the case of open casts). If contagion checks are too infrequent, the creature may die (or the spell effect burn out) before it is able to infect anything else. Damage done by both versions should be tweaked as needed to keep balance.

Sothog's player

Points by Tarakan, March 2, 2003

Disease doesn't need to be a yet another instant kill spell. Instead, it should be different with some unique group-like effects as follows:

1. Make it communicable rather than more lethal to the initial victim. From an evolutionary perspective, a pathogen doesn't really "want" to be immediately lethal, but rather would prefer to use its victim to multiply and spread copies of itself to as many other hosts as possible. The spell should therefore magically infect a critter with the critter-specific variety of small pox for example (only lethal 30% of time). Such an illness should be highly contagious to other critters of that species who enter the room, infecting them too (even if exposure is limited to an infected body part [as when used in conjuction with 708] or the corpse [if not searched]).

2. Make it more debilitating during the peak phase of the disease cycle. The problem with the current form of the spell is that the critters can run, fight, or perform myriad other actions not usually associated with something wracked by painful illness. Make the disease cycle in effect from initial infection to incubation period (some weakness to AS, DS), to maximum effect and onset of contagious period (massive weaknesses, total incapacitation for most activity, highly infectious), to eventual death or recovery (with residual weakness but also huge resistance to additional disease for some time).

3. Cede SGM Warden the right to make his critter populations grow resistant to diseases based on exposure frequency. If troll kings are being diseased a lot, their residual populutions should eventually evolve some increased resistance while their collective exposure rates remain high.

4. Change 113 so that it doesn't automatically cure the disease [use the current curse/uncurse model, give additional bonus when cast by empaths].

5. Change 104 so that it also makes a disease milder or shorter in duration, and offers a huge bonus protection against infectious transfer from a diseased peer (as opposed to a direct exposure via spell).

6. Make members of a group suffer a huge penalty against infection if any member thereof is contagious.

7. Make the disease somewhat transferrable to anyone coming in contact with a host's blood, either from making it bleed in combat, tending its wounds, or raising it from the dead while the pathogens remain potent. [This will give us an additional reason to use Evil Eye.]

8. Make it able to permanently scar, pock, or otherwise blemish features (forcing a player to return to the butchers for extra cosmetic work) if allowed to progress.

9. Make the disease cycle faster if the critter is webbed, stunned, jolted, or bled.

Tarakan