True Hybrids
What Would Make us True Hyrbrids? By
Nilven, February 16, 2003
(After some discussion about access to both Major Circles)
Now this discussion could be very usefully interesting. Other
than access to major spheres and separation of mana, what would you want
sorcerers to be able to do that would truly define them as hybrid casters?
Nilven
Response by Kithus, February 16, 2003
Separating the dispels to only work on their type of magic would
have been a good start.
Elemental detect should be changed so that sorcerers have an easier time
detecting any spirit spells, while perhaps a slightly harder time than wizards
with elemental spells. In its current form I can't seem to detect much and end
up having to go to a bard just to see what an imbedded item is.
Honestly I think the two things you are excluding are what would make sorcerers
real hybrid casters. It would add a lot of diversity to sorcerers if we had
access to both major spheres as well. There is no way we could perfect all both
elemental and both spirit lists but we could make choices of how far we want to
go on each. I don't see this as being over powering in any way. The only problem
I could see is that wizards would cry bloody murder if you made major elemental
available to another profession as they wouldn't have two profession specific
lists then.
I can see a lot of new types of sorcerers emerging if both major spheres were
opened to us for mandatory. The most obvious would be the bolter with the major
elemental circle. The major circles would also allow for a better type of
"war sorcerer" if one wished to pursue that path. It would also give
sorcerers the unique ability (If trained for it) to imbed any spell of any minor
or major circle.
Is the idea to give sorcerers access to the major circles even feasible?
Honestly I'm not sure I could see a problem balance wise with the idea. We'd
still only be able to get so many spells per level. Anyone trying to be a master
of all the spheres would end up pretty bad at everything and with short
durations of every spell type. Would this be a consideration or is it something
that no one is even willing to look at as an option? If it isn't even something
that would be looked at and considered (or has been considered) would you mind
telling us why this idea is not feasible?
The divided mana circles would make sorcerers more useful to other professions.
We should be the masters of channeling mana as we are the only ones capable of
using both elemental and spiritual mana. However that depends on if the mana in
the world is divided that way. However it could get extremely limiting for team
work and such. Sorcerers tend to be the least likely of the magical professions
to group hunt anyways and a wizard and cleric (for example) hunting together
would be completely unable to share mana. Its a thought but I don't think it
would matter to me either way.
Kithus Norrak and his dragon
Kevralynn's Doubts, February 16, 2003
Nice idea, but I don't see it flying. Too overpowering. The
extra DS, the extra abilities would make us unkillable. I'd also say it would
take a good deal of individuality from certain professions, such as charging
wizards. There's also a reason as to why MsS aren't allowed to be imbedded under
normal circumstance - not everyone should have access to heroism, bravery etc.
I never see this happening, even though I do like the idea. I wish I had
heroism.
Perhaps we could gain access to the other circles though; Perhaps at birth, we
could choose two of the four (sorcery is automatic) in which would like to
master. The tp cost for these two circles would remain the same. The other two
would be doubled so we could train/dabble in them, just not very effectively.
Or we could have some spell like 735 - Circle Augment. We could cast it, select
the major elemental or spiritual, then gain the ability to cast spells from that
for a limited time. Perhaps the circle would take over one of the previous
lists; so you change minor spiritual into major spiritual etc - this would make
sure you would not get the super sell combo's etc.
K
Kithus to Kevralynn, February 16, 2003
All valid points though I'd like to contest them:
The extra +40 DS total on those spell circles would require extra spell training
that would come off some other list where we'd likely lose DS as both minor
circles have high level DS/TD spells (barrier, alkars, wall of force). The extra
TD is a consideration but the best TD enhancer on the majors is spell shield
which would chop 19 ranks of spells off your minor spells somewhere. Theoretically
you could master all 4 spell lists (while still keeping 1 sorcerer/level) by cap
with tripling but all spells would have much shorter durations than they could
have and many would be far less effective (CS spells, rank/level bonus spells).
As for individuality the only profession that has one of these circles to itself
is wizards. That in itself is a mistake as it gives wizards two sphere
completely dedicated to them. On the other hand sorcerers have the two most
widely spread circles to choose from. Charging wizard by the way isn't a
profession it's an occasional hobby that wizards can tend to use to make some
money and I firmly believe sorcerers should be able to charge items anyways.
The imbedding of MjS (Not MnS ::duck::) shouldn't be an issue now. Yes it would
be much easier to make heroism, bravery etc imbeds but there is MIU required to
use them now. I say if someone wants to train to use the items there is no
reason they shouldn't be able to. Any spells that would be deemed too powerful
to be imbeddible simple could be removed from the imbeddible list (Both
sanctuary spells come to mind quickly).
I look on the major lists and see a lot of what sorcerers say we are lacking,
utility spells. Mana, unpresence, purify air, untrammel, sanctuary(s), spirit
servant, transference, disk, charge item. I also see a combat sorcerer using
bravery, heroism, strength, haste, spirit strike, and targeting emerging (Not me
personally I think it'd break down to useless after a the spells stopped making
up for the squares 3 ROI).
Most of all I see a choice, which many GMs seem in favor of. It would be a
choice which circles to train in and how far. It would add a lot of diversity to
the profession and actually make it mean something to be "hybrids."
Different spheres all have their advantages and disadvantages compared to other
spheres and in the long run it would likely work out very well. I think this
change would make sorcerers the least cookie cutter profession.
Now someone had mentioned to me in discussion a problem with sorcerer CS issues
associated with having 4 spheres to choose from instead of 2 (Non sorcerer of
course). Yes theoretically you could triple every level and never go past 3/4 of
your level in any sphere. However there is a simple solution to this as well.
Instead of 3/4 of your level of minor elemental giving full bonus and
diminishing returns after that make it 3/4 of your level in elemental spells in
general before diminishing returns. A sorcerer could choose to be a master of
the elemental side, almost completely forsaking spirit spells but as sorcerer
spells are hybrid his sorcerer CS would suffer slightly. This would leave
incentive to balance out spirit and elemental spheres as well as not giving
added bonus to triple training in spells.
Any other questions, comments, concerns, snide remarks or death threats? By the
way this wasn't my idea originally but after thinking about it a while I
realized it was a good one. Whoever brought it up (again), take a bow.
Kithus Norrak and his dragon